Some Thoughts on Georgist Education Strategies

Harry Pollard and Ed Dodson

[An exchange of experiences and views on promoting courses on political economy and effective classroom methods. 30 December, 2008]

HARRY POLLARD
As you know, we had dozens of teachers and no teachers' training classes.

ED DODSON
The most important word above, Harry, is "had." We do not know with any certainty whether the movement's ability to grow via teachers teaching people who became teachers disintegrated because of decisions made in New York (and by people on the HGS boards elsewhere) or because the times "they were a-changin'".

HARRY POLLARD
The times had already changed in the 50's. In England Vic Blundel had 1,000 students in his classes across England immediately after the war. Yet, my first class in 1948 was 4 people who probably were all lost -- I can't remember.

When I left in 1954 for Canada the London Headquarters -- perhaps the equivalent of HGSNY -- was already having trouble recruiting people. The writing was on the wall but we weren't reading it.

My talent (probably the only one) is innovation. As I've said, I'm not a good manager -- but I do come up with innovative ideas. This is why Toronto worked so well, why we managed to get hundreds of inches of newspaper space, why we became an interesting part of the Ontario scene. (Usually, a reporter could be found at our meetings.)

Also, why at the Montreal HG Conference, I showed them how to do it and we got the front pages of both the French and English newspapers. As usual we were trying to get a paragraph or two on page 27. I showed how successful promotion could be accomplished. I wonder if the Montreal people ever again used the information I gave them?

The Montreal stuff I learned in LA where we regularly appeared on radio and television. Doesn't always work.

We used our knowledge to set up a News Conference for Irene Hickman and had a full house of newspapers and other media -- except for NBC. When it was over, we were packing things up when in rolled the NBC cameras and reporters. Great! We set it up and the interview began.

About reincarnation -- a favorite advocacy of Irene's. So we watched in horror at a pretty good interview, but not what we wanted.

But, back to the system I evolved. It continued after I left with continuing success.

Later, when Jim Ramsey left, I wasn't consulted about a successor. Somebody was appointed of whom I knew nothing. Along the way, the focus turned from education to sales ratio studies designed to get the Provincial government to introduce LVT - utter nonsense.

I would blame Bob Clancy for this. I haven't mentioned this but when I arrived in Los Angeles, our subsidy from New York was cut by $3,000.

Now, to go to Los Angeles I gave up my three jobs -- I represented three companies. No way could I get them back if the LA effort failed. So, I risked a lot, but Bob cut us -- and me -- by a large amount of our allocation.

Probably, I was a loose cannon interfering with the way things were supposed to be -- a pointer to why we have been failing for so many years. LA had a hard time surviving -- at one point I was 5 months behind with my salary. This is what led me to radio and television as a cheap way to get publicity and send out our messages.

I had a stable of 21 Georgists (real ones) to fill my panels and otherwise help on many radio programs. I also got people like Tideman, Gwartney, and Hickman, on a national radio network of 400 stations. All from the same techniques used in Toronto.

I agree that times have changed. On the other hand we haven't. An earlier HGSNY Director -- Margaret Bateman -- once said it would be cheaper to get students by standing outside the school and offering $10 to anyone who would take a course. The operative word is 'had'. At one time we 'had' 20 or 30 active Schools across North America.

I rather think that knowledge of the subject is more important to teaching than a teaching certificate or a college degree in education. This is particularly true of Socratic teaching where any question may come up at any time. Yet, one doesn't need to be a "good speaker", not do diagrams help particularly -- though they may be useful to reinforce what has already been learned. Mostly, however, they get in the way.

ED DODSON
There are very few Henry George (or even Eric Hoffer) types today who have managed to gain a wide audience. We live in a time when a high school diploma means little, and even a bachelors degree is considered basic education for many careers and professions.

With so much information available via the internet, without having to leave the comfort of one's home, getting people to attend a seminar or register for a non-credit course is far more difficult than it was in the 1950s and early 1960s. Out of millions of people in the NYC metropolitan area, our flagship HGS fills its classrooms, but the influence of the school's graduates on NYC politics after 75 years has been almost nonexistent. The efforts in Chicago, Philadelphia, San Francisco and Los Angeles (although far less well-funded) -- regardless of different approaches tried - have not resulted in a steady growth in the number of teachers or supporters or activists. It cannot be because Socratic teaching methods were or were not employed.

HARRY POLLARD
We did have steady growth in graduates and teachers, both in Ontario and Los Angeles. It was more difficult in Los Angeles because we had a bunch of original Georgists from the Truehart years who were not warm to the idea of moving new graduates and teachers on to the Board. However, we did have about half the Board composed of new teachers when I embarked on the High School Program. I then concentrated everything on the Program. It was such a breakthrough I felt it mustn't fail. Getting in to public education was thought to be impossible (as was getting a worthwhile income from classes and running 30 session semesters.)

An audience of any kind is always somewhat suspicious of a speaker. They wonder what he is trying to persuade them to believe in. This suspicion disappears when they are in group discussion of any kind.

Yet, they are more easily persuaded in discussion than by lecture. Their guard is down. In fact, this point was emphasized in our talks with our Socratic teachers. Don't push them in any direction -- let them get there by themselves. It's too easy to convert people in Socratic discussion.

ED DODSON
So, is it your recommendation that even though most people who come to our classes come unprepared (i.e., they have not read the assigned pages), that the way to generate understanding is by asking them questions and keep asking questions until they "get there by themselves"?

HARRY POLLARD
They don't read the book because they don't care. Teach is going to tell them anyway -- what does it matter?

Socratic students in Canada would often bring their books with them -- and refer to them in class. I'm sure some didn't read beforehand, but it didn't matter. Those who did no doubt led the discussion. In Toronto I used the three basic School materials. Seemed to work well. Probably Lindy's improvements would work much better.

Then I wrote my own adult course which didn't need reading the book (102 pages). This in turn became the basis of InterStudent.

You seem somewhat bemused by students finding their own way to the truth. I should say that when they get there themselves, it sticks. When a lecturer persuades them of something, perhaps next week another lecturer will refute everything. But when they have been immersed in conversation about these great ideas for many weeks, the content becomes part of them.

When something is discovered by someone he is likely to hold it, add to it, make it part of his knowledge. If he is persuaded by a good talker, he is likely to persuaded in the opposite direction next week by another good talker. I recall when presenting evidence in Sacramento to our public servants, a principal witness in opposition was a graduate of the San Diego Henry George School. Doesn't prove much but it's something to think about.

ED DODSON
My hope is that the discussions we have in class will stimulate people to read Progress and Poverty and not be intimidated by the material. With the new edition of P&P I am more optimistic that this will be the result. It is a positive expression of interest when any of my students come back to take the second and third courses at the school.

Use of the Powerpoint modules is one way to reduce the role of instructor as a talking head. The students can be called on to reach what is on the slides, then engage them in some discussion of the implications.

HARRY POLLARD
I wouldn't let you use Powerpoint modules in the basic classes, but I would have given my eye-teeth to have you in Toronto back then. You would teach advanced classes to graduates and teachers. I would probably charge $20-$30 or something to attend your sessions and probably use you to run all-day seminars in the basics of Henry George. We would make some money.

The trouble with our Basic Courses is that we are not teaching economics, we are teaching land-value taxation.

Some 40-50 years ago I told Bob Clancy that we were doing this -- that much of the Basic course was about the remedy. He stoutly disagreed, but couldn't persuade me otherwise.

A little later in the 70's I divided us into Georgists and land-value taxers.

I fear the Georgists are declining even as they are being replaced by land-value taxers.